Zend I'm giving up

General discussion on Zend Studio
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jaimz
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:18 am

Zend I'm giving up

Post by jaimz » Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:00 pm

Well, I'm not sure what you guys (zend) are up to. but it seems like you're forgetting about all the people who use your products. The people that drive your company, the people that give you jobs, and the people that want to see you do more great things.

First off, I've been using Zend studio since version 3. I've been an advocate, I've enforced my entire company to use Zend products, I'm even used as a quote and testimonial for ZS9.

What are you guys doing? There seems to be a complete lack of support, and the support that is given is half-assed at best. Did you know that PHP5.4 is more than just a number change? On that note, did you reprimand the person who said that the traits support in Zend Studio was ready to be shipped?

And how about this forum!? It's got more spam than Hormel Foods!

Today I downloaded PHPStorm (!) it's faster then Zend Studio, and it actually supports the things it says it will support! You see it seems like with ZS9 all you guys did for the php5.4 update was make it not throw up an error on traits and dereferenced array usage.

We, the users, are professionals. We're not little script kiddies who don't know what we're doing. I for one feel like someone is trying to pull the wool over our eyes to keep us at bay.

Is there any word on either actually supporting the newer php's going forward, or are you guys doing ZS10 or what!? PHPStorm is far beyond where ZS is, and as an extremely long time supporter I'd hate to have to leave Zend behind.

Every newsletter I get I open quickly to see if there's a newer ZS version, but 99% of it is nothing but Zend Framework. That's great! But, I didn't sign up for a Zend Framework newsletter, I signed up for a Zend newsletter. If ZF has become your primary business concern I'd suggest you get back to your roots, because last time I checked, ZF is free... ZS costs money.

Zend... Your fans, customers, and supporters deserve some attention. And, No I don't care about Zend Framework.

jaimz
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:18 am

Re: Zend I'm giving up

Post by jaimz » Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:37 am

Imagine that, no reply and within only 4 days there was so much unmoderated spam that this was pushed to the bottom of the second page

sprocketlogic
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:43 pm

Re: Zend I'm giving up

Post by sprocketlogic » Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:08 pm

It's almost as if Zend is a slumlord. They charge a premium for their proprietary software poorly bolted on to a free IDE. As you can get much of the same functionality with PHPStorm (which is much less expensive), NetBeans or Eclipse/Apatana (both free).

When you criticize them they (Kentatzend, particularly) come out of their tower to slap you around a little and tell you why you should love them and if you don't like them go elsewhere. Can do, but as a paying customer we still have a voice and every right to exercise it.

The amount of spam on the board is laughable. So you can't control a few underpaid foreign spammers. You can't write a script to prune the posts or come up with some creative means to reduce the amount of spam? Or is it because you don't want to? Oh, let me guess -- to do so would require you to use Zend Studio -- and as you can tell by the feedback on this message board, no one - not even the developers - want to do that.

jaimz
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:18 am

Re: Zend I'm giving up

Post by jaimz » Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:57 am

Oh, let me guess -- to do so would require you to use Zend Studio -- and as you can tell by the feedback on this message board, no one - not even the developers - want to do that
Oh snap! Lol

Seriously, just two years ago people looked up to zend studio and it's users. Now when you tell someone you use it they reply with "why?"

My testimonial says that it's fast and it's good stuff. But it's not the best. Zend you can't keep holding onto old things like eclipse. Whenever happened to the actual IDE roots of ZS3 and 4?

It's like the guy who cared got fired or something.

I can get phpstorm for all of my developers for a total of $199... With ZS it's $299 per developer! Zend you better make something unbelievably amazing to keep up with the competition. I just found out today that one of my developers was basically using notepad with highlighting because it was "better than zend studio"

User avatar
idobms
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:18 am

Re: Zend I'm giving up

Post by idobms » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:21 pm

Let me try and address a few of the issues that you are bringing up here. We are indeed seeing a wave of spammers on the forums in the past few weeks who are aware of the fact that this is a very popular forum and ranks high in search engines. The forum like many other frequently visited sites is usually attacked different bots which we mostly handle automatically however this recent wave is driven by humans, sometimes hundreds each week. This new wave are people that register as real users on one of Zend’s sites taking advantage of the fact that much like in any of our sites (DevZone, KB, ZendFramework, even phpcloud.com) we try not to restrict users, email domains, geographical regions (and we pretty much know where the spammers are coming from), etc. We also apply extremely limited moderation of content even in negative threads such as this one. We are working on better filtering against the human spammers and I hope that we will all see some improvement soon.

Jaimz, I appreciate your long term commitment to Zend and being a Zend advocate. You are raising valid issues from your experience with ZS9/php 5.4 and I will be happy to arrange a call with the product management team to go over the feedback and see what is addressed in the upcoming ZS 10 and what still requires additional investment either in ZS10 or one of its minor releases. Concerning performance issues, if you have examples we can get the development team to investigate. eclipse may be a factor in some cases or not in others. It is difficult to address it in general but there are always developers that prefer a standalone custom platform and others that like the benefits of eclipse being a widely used open environment with plugins, large community, etc. Regardless, each new ZS version includes many fixes some performance related but there are many components in Studio and it has a very diverse user base so we are interesting in scenarios that might not be covered well.

As far as newsletter, it is probably true that ZendFramework 2 took a lot of the real estate recently. Zend Framework 2 release was an exciting event for Zend and the php community in general over the past few months. We have invested tremendously in ZF2 together with our partners and many community contributors who believe that it will increase developers productivity, time to market, promote application best practices and drive better architected applications. A lot of content was created around ZF2 but we always focus also on our Zend Server and Zend Studio users, many of them also benefit from Zend Framework in their applications and the integrations between the solutions. Our next major product releases are Studio 10 and Zend Server 6 and both will introduce a lot of new and improved functionality including many features requested by customers. We will expose and present much more on both products at the PHP2012/ZendCon conference later this month.

sprocketlogic, I am not sure which communication or post you are referring to however we fully understand that there might be features in the product that customers would like to improve and scenarios that do not work well for them. We are taking hundreds if not more of feedback points each year on all products via support cases, onsite visits, PS engagements, account reviews, discussions at ZendCon, social media and so forth. Not every request gets a priority and some things take time to implement or are not feasible however customer feedback plays a very significant role in planning future releases. I really hope that we did not send people elsewhere but in some cases we will not be able to accommodate every request. If you have concrete product feedback I can connect you as well with PM or you can document your and send you requests/issues to provide the product team with information they will need to assess it.
Thanks.

mmmshuddup
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:44 am

Re: Zend I'm giving up

Post by mmmshuddup » Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:59 am

idobms wrote:Let me try and address a few of the issues that you are bringing up here. We are indeed seeing a wave of spammers on the forums in the past few weeks who are aware of the fact that this is a very popular forum and ranks high in search engines. The forum like many other frequently visited sites is usually attacked different bots which we mostly handle automatically however this recent wave is driven by humans, sometimes hundreds each week. This new wave are people that register as real users on one of Zend’s sites taking advantage of the fact that much like in any of our sites (DevZone, KB, ZendFramework, even phpcloud.com) we try not to restrict users, email domains, geographical regions (and we pretty much know where the spammers are coming from), etc. We also apply extremely limited moderation of content even in negative threads such as this one. We are working on better filtering against the human spammers and I hope that we will all see some improvement soon.

Jaimz, I appreciate your long term commitment to Zend and being a Zend advocate. You are raising valid issues from your experience with ZS9/php 5.4 and I will be happy to arrange a call with the product management team to go over the feedback and see what is addressed in the upcoming ZS 10 and what still requires additional investment either in ZS10 or one of its minor releases. Concerning performance issues, if you have examples we can get the development team to investigate. eclipse may be a factor in some cases or not in others. It is difficult to address it in general but there are always developers that prefer a standalone custom platform and others that like the benefits of eclipse being a widely used open environment with plugins, large community, etc. Regardless, each new ZS version includes many fixes some performance related but there are many components in Studio and it has a very diverse user base so we are interesting in scenarios that might not be covered well.

As far as newsletter, it is probably true that ZendFramework 2 took a lot of the real estate recently. Zend Framework 2 release was an exciting event for Zend and the php community in general over the past few months. We have invested tremendously in ZF2 together with our partners and many community contributors who believe that it will increase developers productivity, time to market, promote application best practices and drive better architected applications. A lot of content was created around ZF2 but we always focus also on our Zend Server and Zend Studio users, many of them also benefit from Zend Framework in their applications and the integrations between the solutions. Our next major product releases are Studio 10 and Zend Server 6 and both will introduce a lot of new and improved functionality including many features requested by customers. We will expose and present much more on both products at the PHP2012/ZendCon conference later this month.

sprocketlogic, I am not sure which communication or post you are referring to however we fully understand that there might be features in the product that customers would like to improve and scenarios that do not work well for them. We are taking hundreds if not more of feedback points each year on all products via support cases, onsite visits, PS engagements, account reviews, discussions at ZendCon, social media and so forth. Not every request gets a priority and some things take time to implement or are not feasible however customer feedback plays a very significant role in planning future releases. I really hope that we did not send people elsewhere but in some cases we will not be able to accommodate every request. If you have concrete product feedback I can connect you as well with PM or you can document your and send you requests/issues to provide the product team with information they will need to assess it.
Thanks.
I'm sorry Zend but that is just too little, too late. I've had other issues I've tried to address directly with Zend and even with the ZS development team at ZendCon 2010. I was using ZS7 at the time and presented my issue with the project lead for ZS (whose name I can't remember off hand, I just remember that he was from Israel). He insisted that I try ZS8 and that it should probably be better. The next day I showed him that the bug was not resolved. I then posted a thread here on the forums, some four odd years ago. And that just fell by the wayside. No follow-ups or anything.

Still, I stayed patient and desperately waited for ZS9 hoping the issue might be resolved. Nope. I've been using ZS9 since it's initial release date give or take a few days. And since then - for about two years now - I've been dealing with ridiculous editor issues and that same old SVN externals bug. I guess I just sorta got so used to it that I stopped caring as much. (Oh and by the way, those weren't the only bugs...just the most important ones I suppose). So yesterday I decided I should finally give ZS10 a try! I figured hey it's been four years now, surely they must have fixed this bug by now... Nope.

Now, unlike the OP I'm not giving up entirely on Zend. I still use ZendServer and the Framework a lot (ZF1 only. ZF2 is a nightmare). But, for the first time in 7 years, I honestly took a long hard look at PHPStorm and a few others and I'm ready to take the dive. It's time to use a real PHP IDE that is devoted to its community. I guess I've finally grown tired of using a Java IDE with some weak PHP features "bolted-on" and Zend's half-working features bolted on top of the PHP ones.

I think it's time you listen to the community. They have been saying this for years and I myself only just start listening. The word is out, Eclipse is "obsolete" (in a way.. and mostly referring to PHP). People want a more "focused" IDE. Maybe the ZS team should really take a long, hard look at that and maybe start considering a total rewrite. Just saying.

Thanks

safetyrailsource
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 6:10 am

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